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  • dilipcr
    06-16 03:41 PM
    Nice well thought out arguments. This is the essence of a healthy debate.

    Dilip -

    Could you please respond to questions raised in my post, when you get a chance?


    I would like to add one more thing here - Employment based immigration is not merit based, it is driven by employer-employment unless you self-petition in Eb1/Eb2.

    For the most part it is if it were left to market forces. Employers, rationally, would only want as much as talent for the price they pay. Most importantly, employers would be willing to go the extra mile to sponsor green cards only if they perceive that the immigrant employee would add value both in the present and the future. Now again, when I say employers, I mean the genuine employers and not the fly by night consulting body shops or the outsourcing companies. I strongly believe that EB based GC for a very large part is built on merit. You may see sme cases wherein some ordinary people getting green cards. They, in my opinion , are mostly from these body shops who got "lucky". Cant believe I am using that word !!!.

    You may be very much qualified, if there is no employer who is ready to sponsor your green card, you are out of luck, so please do not put argument that only best and qualified people get GC.

    Employers will be restricted in applying for GC for very qualified employees only in the period of recession. This happened with companies like CSCO etc in2001. wherein many of my friends left the company because cisco was barred from applying for GC after mass layoffs. But then after a year or so they started applying again. If you are referring to such scenarios, I would recommend patience because the immigrant per se is extremely well talented.

    I don't think it matters, but I am from college based in Kharagpur WB.

    In my opinion it does not. But be careful in this forum though. People may view your statement as egotistic.
    Have a good day!




    Where did you get that 80k number? You think 80k is good salary for that job, someone else may say 65k, I may say 90k. The salary, among other things, is determined by market forces. If you can't find enough people with xyz then company will be forced to offer more.

    As long as there are people who are ready to work on salary 52k (example), employer will not pay 70k. As long as employer is following all the legal requirements, no one can dictate salary for the job.

    I agree that the employer will pay the salary that is cosummate with the market. No well meaning employer will undercut to save a few pennies at the risk of losing out on quality.
    What if the market pay scales are distorted through pervasive fraud ? If you look at it from an employer's view, it gets murkier. Believe it or not, low cost always signal lower quality. Trust me this is marketing 101. Google low cost and the perceptive signals. It is truly tough for the employer to trust the low cost employee's skillset.

    Now the distortion comes into play when outsourcing companies flout rules and undercut the market through pervasive fraud. Like other industries such as manufacturing/agriculture etc, IT wages are destined to decline but not at this rate. The acceleration in the decline of wages is perpetuated by these scum outsourcing companies. If the decline in wages were let to decline at the speed of market, then it gives talented people time to upgrade skills or move to other industries without having to sacrifice quality of living. So per your argument, yes the end employer is following the rules by employing people from the outsourcing company because the employer does not know or looks the other way of the outsourcing company commiting pervasive fraud. Oh BTW that 80K number was just to highlight that the L1s should be paid high too. It was not based on any scientific or statistical evidence.


    I am a US citizen of Indian origin with background in Computer Science, Finance, and Business Laws. I have been in this country for 11+ years and I have seen so many changes in tech world. Nobody talks of sign-on bonus on H1B anymore. I am dot net architect and I am seeing lot of competition for jobs and this is causing downtrend pressure on salary. But, instead of, blaming someone else for the competition, I am taking it head on. We need to keep working on our skillset and employer will pay the salary. Like they say, for the right candidate salary is not a constraint.

    I agree with you on the above points. You are doing the right thing in not blaming others for the downtrend in salaries. However, you are fundamentally assuming that you would have enough time to upgrade and adapt. What if that assumption falls apart ? What if outsourcign companies hit your employer with people with your skillsets at abysmal prices through fraud ? Today many companies do not look into the long term but make short term decisions. They may prefer the loss in quality for the "immediate" cost savings. It may take time for them to realize their follies. In trading, they say that a trader needs to have enough juice to survive the market irrationality. In a similar vein, if you have the wherewithal to survive the employer's short term irrational decisions, then more power to you.

    Let us not forget our struggling days of H1. The least, we can do, is to encourage our fellow immigrants who are waiting for their green cards.

    That is exactly the reason I am here. I want to encourage the truly deserving. I dont know who the truly deserving are on this board. But they know themselves. My encouragement is for them is to ensure that they dont get bogged psychologically despite being immensely talented.

    .





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  • snathan
    03-30 04:03 PM
    Nathan, it is not about MMS, it is about congress. MMS is just a puppet as he was during Narasimha Rao's govt.

    Can you tell us with 100% surety that MMS will not get replaced by Rahul Gandhi after 2 years?

    Yes...only that puupet brought those changes and reforms. I dont have any issues for Mr. Advani, but please show me some track record as he was part of the ruling party for five years.





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  • Desertfox
    09-23 05:35 PM
    FIRST lets just send out the emails as requested by IV (Yes, this is OFFICIALLY ENDORSED BY IV initiative)
    We will have all the time in the world to discuss the details.

    OK... I support the initiative because it will remove some people ahead of me in line. However, I bought a house last week with 3% downpayment on FHA loan, and now how can I justify writing an email with the draft that urges for GCs only for those who paid 20% downpayment?

    Can you give me some thoughts on this so that I can make my selfish mind to agree on writing this email to congress?





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  • immigrant2007
    08-19 02:44 AM
    Wrong guess, what all can i say?



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  • sledge_hammer
    02-16 08:27 AM
    Great find!

    I guess all the talk about suing USCIS will go down the toilet based on this excerpt from the article -

    "Assuming that under the plenary power doctrine noncitizens possess few, if any, constitutional protections with respect to entering the country, the implications of racial and national origin exclusions on citizens must be considered. Because the Constitution unquestionably protects the rights of citizens, citizens claiming injury have a better chance at successfully challenging the immigration laws than noncitizens directly affected by their operation. Courts have recognized that citizens in certain circumstances may challenge the lawfulness of immigration laws because of the impact on their rights."

    oguinan,

    Paragraph 1 of Article 1 establishes the definition of racial discrimination for the purpose of the document. Paragraphs 2 and 3 limit the operation of the convention. As to why paragraphs 2 & 3 were included, perhaps they were required to get countries to sign on to the convention.

    Here's a better link. Read under Modern Racial Exclusion, excerpts of which I have posted below.

    http://academic.udayton.edu/race/02rights/immigr09.htm

    ...similarly situated persons (e.g., siblings and children of U.S. citizens) may face radically different waits for immigration depending on their country of origin, with accompanying racial impacts.

    The law created a new immigrant visa program that effectively represents affirmative action for white immigrants, a group that benefitted from preferential treatment under the national origins quota system until 1965. Congress, in an ironic twist of political jargon, established the "diversity" visa program, which though facially neutral prefers immigrants from nations populated primarily by white people.

    The link to the CERD report is here. The convention does not address the country limit directly as the convention expressly does not apply in that area, but it does show that there is awareness about the discrimination faced by immigrants. http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/(Symbol)/6d8aee7e356e6498c1256d4e00557f3b?Opendocument

    You can see that the UN panel is aware of the fact that racial discrimination manifests itself in disproportional representation (note the reference to the composition of the Supreme Court). It can be argued that the 7% country limit provides a pretext to discriminate against India/China/Mexico on the basis of ethnic or racial origin, and as such would run afoul of the convention.





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  • ps3539
    07-25 01:30 AM
    I am an Indian and proud to be so. Indians - Remove the "SLAVE" mentality from your minds. Think positive. Do some thing good for India, where you have been born and brought up; where your previous generations have flourished. Since, you are now living and earning in US, be loyal to US too.



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  • ufo2002
    05-11 02:04 PM
    I agree with jnayar here... but everyone keep in mind that no system is perfect. But the US employment-based system has serious flaws... especially in today's more globalised-based economy. The requirement that someone stays in the "same job role / same employer" throughout the green card process probably made sense back in the old days when people usually tend to work their entire lives for one company. Today, that no longer makes sense. Employers everywhere almost have worker turnarounds of 2 years on average. That means given the average GC process is about 6 years, you could be looking at someone potentially changing employers 3 times!
    Would anyone like to continue working on the same role/salary for 6 years, given that costs of living increase annually? Of course not.

    I know that Australia has a "job-based" PR process, but it doesn't bind you to one specific employer... so at least you do have the freedom to decide what job you would like to take on.

    The question of immigration to which country is better would probably yield one and the same answer based on the parameters that appear relevant to most people. However, the comparison of immigration processes and systems is an entirely different question - in theory, an employment based immigration system would be a lot better if it is based on correct assumptions. However, an employmet based system that ties an employee to the same job for the duration of the application process, and which requires that the same application processing be redone every time an employee changes jobs, while curtailing the maximum period of time the employee can work in the country is flawed. If the reasoning behind this is that the employee has to show that he/she is indespensible to that one job (with all the highly specific skills that come attached to the job description) which no US citizen/resident is qualified to do, should statistics not show that the majority of positions for which green cards were applied for and obtained have the same employee continuing in that role long after the said employee gets a green card? I would be very surprised if the numbers show that a significant number of employees stick around for any period longer than a year or so in their current, gc-approved roles (and by that, I mean the exact same role for which the GC was applied for - be it with the same company or elsewhere.). In a dynamic market for labor where "skillability" and "learnability" are much more important than current skills and learning, how important is the applicability of a person's current skills to a job that would anyway keep evolving or even changing altogether, during the 6 years of so that a person is employed in that capacity while waiting for the green card?

    Just my $0.02.





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  • sparky_jones
    05-28 10:43 PM
    "When asked about the potential cutoff dates for EB3 India, China, and Mexico, Mr. Oppenheim said that it would depend on the demand for these categories over the rest of FY2009"

    What demand? Aren't these categories already "Unavailable" for the rest of FY2009? What will generate the demand? His earlier statements seem to suggest they have a pretty good handle on the number of cases pending and the EB categories and chargeabilities of those cases. Should'nt they already have a pretty good handle on the demand? On one hand, Mr. Oppenheim is throwing out numbers like they've got it all figured out...and immediately after that he makes a statement which implies they haven't a clue!



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  • riva2005
    03-16 01:05 PM
    There are many more Nick Mandallapas out there selling labor certs to highest bidders for GC.

    Nick Mandallapa went to prison, but others are still out there doing it coz most likely, the Dept of labor is not equipped to catch all the labor sales.





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  • chanduv23
    07-28 11:45 AM
    Jayleno - me thinking sane is the reason you didn't hear from me in any malls/WM :) but I was a minority in BWW who believes in waiting till you find like minded people who are looking. cold contacting is just going against human instincts. you can't simply talk to a person about something to get his phone number and call them about this business next day. that is a reg flag right there. i couldn't do it and hence not with this business anymore. many of us are not ready to think about making millions in few short years. some people need to understand that you can't rub that idea with force on another human being.

    in BWW terms, i was a quitter who can't take the business to the next level because I was afraid of rejection (getting a NO from prospects)..

    Thanks for your perspective and it explains not only about BWW but about cold contacting in general.

    I used to be very very active in IV campaigns and tried to get people sign up for IV activities. We had lobby days, workshops etc.... and we found it very difficult to explain or get people on board for IV activities though it is beneficial for them. Most people would give us the same treatment that they give the Ammway folks.



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  • leo2606
    09-23 04:34 PM
    One thing, assume if it works out and 50% of the people are able to buy houses and get the GC, they are out of the queue right, so automatically the back logs are gone and the remaining people not able to buy the house will get their GCs soon.


    This is not fair and good idea. what about people waiting in line for years and invested their money elsewhere because of this green card delays or those who do not have enough money and job in this market situation. All of the sudden you are brining this idea. This is not fair. This is kind of buying green card. There is a investment based green card category available for that. I request you to go through that channel if you are rich. Not all employment based green card seekers are rich. Please keep that in mind.

    thanks,
    aps





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  • unseenguy
    08-16 12:43 AM
    Why should it be a surprise?
    How do PoE officers know if he is a film star in some foreign language movies?
    Even if they knew, why is SRK so special that he should not be checked?

    There was an instance when a pop singer from India(Daler Mehdi) was accused of smugling illegal immigrants disguised as musicians. Point is, if somebody is a celebrity, that does not make him/her un touchable?

    So shall we strip search Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton on their next visit to India? They can also be accused of bringing something illegal, isnt it?



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  • 485Mbe4001
    06-01 02:26 PM
    Generic lawsuits are not the answer. We should use the above information when we talk to the lawmakes and also use this as rebuttal to the anti's. Lets focus on recapture, venting is not going to help, lawsuits will only help make the lawyers richer(just look at the houses and cars of immigration lawyers ;))

    SSA depends on different countries. People from Mexico and Sweden for example will not have this issue. India does not have a treaty with the US.

    The only solution , to all our problems, is a LAWSUIT.
    The earlier some one has the balls to do it , the better it is.





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  • akred
    06-27 11:19 PM
    Christ is god's son! He does not need a Green Card or any other color card :D So what is the point of making it 0?:p

    First, prove there is a god.

    Is there a birth certificate somewhere? Was it registered timely and does it have the First Name and Last Name for mother father and son?



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  • srkamath
    07-25 09:54 PM
    Are you sure about # 3?

    The annual limits are 140000+FB, the FB spillover number are available during the first quarter itself. So it is possible for DOS to estimate the annual limit very early in the year, it seems unlikely that they will wait till the last quarter.


    .....
    3. At least 20,000 if not more FB spill over is available and has not been applied to this year's count.[/B]





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  • oguinan
    02-14 12:19 PM
    The debate is interesting for a couple of reasons. First, it demonstrates that the EB system is very complex and any change causes ripple effects throughout the entire system. Second, we cannot talk to elected representatives about the immigration system if we do not have a complete understanding of it. We have to go into discussions with the idea that we have made a complete assessment of the impact of our proposals, that we recognize the issues and risks involved in each proposal.

    The 485 filing without a current priority date is a really good example of the kind of debate that should be happening here. It would be nice if we could provide interim benefits to people who have been waiting for a long time to get a green card. Allowing anybody with an approved labour certification to immediately file for their 485 is clearly a bad idea given the constraints of the system as outlined by unitednations. We could make a change in our proposal so that only people with, say, a five year old priority date and an approved 140 could file for their 485 without a current priority date.

    This is one of the most constructive threads that I have followed on IV over the past few months - good job all round.

    oguinan


    It is an important topic.

    Reason is:

    2005 and prior; certain countries went over their limit. If they hadn't gone over their limit then EB3 would not have gone unavailable. If EB3 would not have gone unavailable then EB3 ROW would have much more advanced dates. Countries cannot go over their 7% limit now until ROW eb3 essentially gets current. If they had done it in the past then maybe eb3 row would be current and the other countries can go over their 7% limit and their dates would also have advanced. Due to what happened in 2005 the dates are further back for everyone then they should have been.

    How it is working and how it is supposed to work is important in people making their decisions; ie., should i file in eb2 or eb3?

    What is impact by eliminating the 7% limit

    What would happen if there is 485 filing without priority date being current and there is a hard cap of 7%. There would never, ever be unused visas for china, india. They would have never ending retrogression.

    For people who constantly watch visa bulletin; the dates won't move forward until fourth quarter when eb1 and eb2 visas get spilled over.; so no sense in waiting for it so eagerly.



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  • BharatPremi
    07-26 04:01 PM
    So why are you here in the first place? Why in US? Why applying for GC? Why on IV to try to improve this broken system? Face the fact, you too dont want to return or else you wouldnt be here.

    There is no harm in being selfish and persuing a better life. "Do something good for India" is an ideal punch line for preachers. BUT Be realistic.

    Rongha_2000,

    Hypothetically speaking let's say if USA decides not to take you in permanently what will you do?:D





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  • leoindiano
    08-17 06:22 AM
    read the comments here,

    The Buzz Log - The Shah Rukh Khan incident - Yahoo! Buzz (http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/92914?fp=1)

    you will see what damage mr. selef-centered dumbie did with his stupid comments.....





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  • smisachu
    02-12 10:17 PM
    Not a bad point. I support this.

    [QUOTE=hopefulgc;222625]Clear up your mind for a little while and consider this:





    Macaca
    07-04 08:49 AM
    Chanduv thanks for your efforts. A correction: retrogression started in fall of 2004
    I think its is Oct 1, 2005. Please verify!





    hopefulgc
    12-13 04:16 PM
    whenever a good idea is raised .. we all obey hte dynamics of group behavior and divide ourselves into two parts

    FOR and AGAINST the idea..

    soon discussion ensues.. and since pessimism is more scary than optimism... and we have other "less viable" alternatives.. the good idea is soon forgotten.

    Can we do something different this time and give this great idea the attention it deserves?



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